Serbian Genetics
Source Sonja Garnitschnig
Important notice: the following results are only from the Orthodox population of Serbia which is why R1a is higher that average results and E1b is lower
The haplogroups that make the Serbian genetic pool are as follows:
I2a1b-L621: 32.49% – Sclavenian (South Slavic)
R1a: 23.48% – “North“ Slavic (more common for western and eastern Slavs, southern Slavs are usually I2a)
E1b: 13.84 % – Pre-Slavic Balkan population (Illyrians, Thracians)
J2: 9.43% – Mediterran people (Greeks,Romans…)
I1: 10.48% – North Germanic, Teutonic. Very common in Scandinavia, possibly came with the Goths
G2a: 4.82-5% – Celtic
N: 1,68% – Ugro-Finnic, probably came with the Magyars. In high levels among Tatars, Magyars and Finnish people
R1b: 1.68% – Celto-Germanic
Q: 0.21% – Mongolian
H: 0.15% – Gypsy
ANCIENT PEOPLE:
Slavs: 55.97%
Pre-Slavic Balkan people: 23.27%
Germano-Celtic: 16.98%
Caucasian people: (might be Bulgaro-Magyar) 4.82%
Finnic: 1.68%
Mongolian: 0.21%
Gypsy: 0.15%
SIMILARITIES WITH OTHER PEOPLE (RANDOMLY SELECTED)
Croatia: 86.3 %
Bosnia (Muslims only): 81.6 %
Montenegro: 71.34 %
Slovenia: 69.54 %
Romania: 58.25%
Greece: 57.93 %
Belarus: 57.84 %
Russia: 53.2%
Poland: 49.6%
It’s not at all strange that Serbs are the most similar with other south Slavs. It might be surprising at first that the Serbian similarity with Montenegrins and Bulgarians is about the same (both Bulgaria and Montenegro have a stronger pre-Slavic Balkan influence than Serbia). Despite popular belief, the similarity between Serbian and Croatian DNA is way bigger than that between Serbian and Montenegrin, and it is an astonishing 86.3%!
The second highest similarity is with Bosnian Muslims. Excepting the similarity with Poland, Serbian similarity with non-Slavic Balkan people and East/West Slavs is at about the same level, in spite of the enormous geographical distance between both East and West Slavs.
BONUS: SERBS FROM CROATIA AND BOSNIA
I2a1b-L621: 28.8% – South Slavic
R1a: 26.5% – North Slavic
I1: 11.7% – North Germanic/Viking
E1b: 11.2% – Pre-Slavic Balkan (Illyrian-Thracian)
J2B: 9.4% – Greek/Roman
R1b: 3.7% – Celto-Germanic or Anatolian branch (since I don’t have more detailed results I can’t be sure)
N: 3% – Ugro-Finnic
G2a: 2.4% – Celtic branch
J1: 1% – Semitic
ANCIENT PEOPLE:
Slavs: 55.4%
Pre-Slavic Balkan people: 22.6%
Germanic people: 16.8%
Ugro-Finnic: 3.%
The similarity with Serbs from Serbia is 81.5%, which is about the same as the similarity of Poles to Slovaks or Poles to Belarussians. Serbs from Croatia and Bosnia basically have the same amount of North and South Slavic haplogroups, whereas I2a is way higher than R1a in Serbs from Serbia.
Comparing these two results, we can see that Bosnian and Croatian Serbs have more R1a and less I2a than Serbs from Serbia. The territories that Serbs (the tribe) populated from the 7th up to the 10th century were Rascia (modern-day Bosnia and modern-day Raška region in Serbia) and three quarters of what is now Dalmatia (Travunia, Pagania, Za
Modern Serbia holds nothing of that area; rather, it holds the territories of Moravians, Dragovitians, and Timoscans, which might mean that Moravians, Dragovitians and Timoscians were I2a dominant while the original Serbs (the tribe) were R1a dominant. That would make sense since Serbs (the tribe) came from modern-day Eastern Germany, and a part of them had chosen not to migrate, and still lives there. In fact, Lusatian Sorbs have the highest percentage of the R1a haplogroup in the world – over 60%.
During the rule of the Serbian king Milutin Nemanjić (1282-1321), mixing between Moropsi(Srblji), which was the name of the descendants of Slavs at the time, and Vlachs, the name for the descendants of the pre-Slavic population, was strictly forbidden (Literal translation of Srblji would be Serbs which means that before Turkish invasion, descendants of Pre-Slavic Balkan population were not considered as Serbs).Moreover, only Morapsi were allowed to have land while the Vlachs held no such rights and were forced to be cattlemen. Because of this, the Vlachs were poor, so many of them decided to have only one child per family in order to become wealthy (a tradition which has survived among Serbian Vlachs to this day). That is why the number of the pre-Slavic population is lower than would be expected – there’s is only 13.84% of the E haplogroup. Compare this to Bulgaria, where there is 26% of E.
Mixing between Morapsi and Vlachs, plenty of whom assimilated into Morapsi thus creating Serbian population, probably started after the Turkish invasion in the 15th century, so it can be inferred that Serbian Slavs were not mixing with pre-slavic Balkan population from before that. This also means that the mixing was not homogeneous. It can easily be noticed how diverse Serbians from different areas are. Serbs from some areas look very light and pale-skinned, whereas some are darker-tanned. Take a look at a picture of Serbs from Grdelica (southern Serbia) and Novi Pazar (south-western Serbia).
Serbs from Grdelica. Source: http://dnevnikjuga.rs
Serbs from Novi Pazar. Source: www.sda.rs
Now take a look at Serbs from Užice (western Serbia) and Kragujevac (central Serbia).
Serbs from Užice. Source: http://media1.osstarigrad.edu.rs
Radnički Kragujevac U19team
I have to mention that the phenotype and genotype do not always correspond, but it is something that I have noticed among Serbs and Croats – how much diversity could be seen among different regions. The diversity doesn’t end there. For instance, Muslim Serbs from Novi Pazar area have only 3.57% of R1a, and their total similarity with Orthodox Serbs is 70.04%, which means that Orthodox Serbs are more similar to Bosnian Muslims than Novi Pazar Muslims. Or put differently, the only similarity between Bosnian and Novi Pazar Muslims is their religion.
The main source for the data about Serbian genetics presented in this article comes from SERBIAN DNA PROJECT.
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How many people are tested? Why do you think that Orthodox Serbians have more R1a than the minorities (hungarians have alot of R1a for example)
How many males are tested? Can you tell me why ortodox population of serbia have higher R1a than Serbia as whole?
it is absolutely wrong to set an absolute correlation between haplogroups and ethnoses. The reason is that haplogroups are tens of thousands of years older than ethnicity (ethnos is a culturological, not a biologica terml). First of all, I am referring to the attemption of connection of the E1b1 carriers with the ancient Balkan population. Contemporary anthropological research indicates that the Balkan population has not changed significantly since ancient (and even neolithic) times to modern times (see research dedicated to Lepenski Vir and other localities). It is more probable that in the process of ethnogenesis of contemporary south Slovene ethnicity there was a population with a similar distribution of haplotypes. On the other hand, on Balkan origins of some Slavic tribes also points an early medieval chronicles (Nostrov’s letopis, for example), as well as many etymological studies.
This article is not attendibile, I think it’s for make Serbian look more Slavic that is not so realistic because they are in Slavic heritage similar to Bulgarian and Macedonian.
Ahhh i dont think so, this can be just one study showing more than unusual. R1a among Serbs is like 18-20% usually, 25 isnt a big difference. Bulgarians have some turks and gyspies counted in their tests so % among them is higher too. Having slighly more R1a wouldnt suprice me because Serbia is still northern compared to Bulgaria and we dont have see (Romans and romanised pre-slavic population were more concentrated on sea) We have the most common hertage with croats and bosniaks but pretty similar to bulgarian one too. One thing i have to ask autor, how many Serbs have u tested?
This text is based on serbian dna project which tested 1892 men for now: https://dnk.poreklo.rs/naslovna/. But except the Serbs from Serbia and BiH there are included Bosniaks from Sandžak, Serbs from Macedonia and Serbs from Montenegro, which all have much higher E1b1b and lower R1a than Serbs in Serbia and BiH. Everyone can personaly check informations on this site, but that is lot of work, because you should exclude all other groups except Serbs in Serbia to get this results. I for example counted number of Serbs in Serbia with R1a and E1b1b and found that R1a have 187 and E1b1b have 134 of tested Serbs. Results for Montenegrin Serbs are much different.
And so does the archaeology suggest, see: http://www.ebritic.com/?p=607506
Our results are very different from bulgarian and macedonian who are much less slavic and more native balkan. You can check it on eupedia. Closest to us are Bosniaks and Croats which is expected because of close origin. Also our appearance is matching with bosniak and croat appearance. Serbs, Bosniaks and Croats are amongst the tallest nations in Europe, which we cannot say for Bulgarians and Macedonians. Also we are of lighter skin, hair and eyes than Bulgarians and Macedonians. I live in Serbia and i visited Macedonia and Bulgaria, so i know we are different from them in appearence.
i2 have nothing with slavs
According to genetists our(serbian) branch of I2 is south slavic branch, because south slavs brought it from western Ukraine to Balkans. You can read about that on eupedia.
As far as I remember the Byzantine Emperor Constantine P (Xth cent AD) described the Serbian name as coming from “servula’ or slave, the same as the sandals.
The Vlachs were the Kings,Lords and Church officials of all the Slavs.
After the Turks took over the Balkans only the Vlachs had a status the rest of the Slavs were treated as slaves.
If there were Vlachs described as Shepherds that doesn’t mean that all of them were.
And remember, one of the Byzantine Emperor was a Shepherd.
You have no idea. That is the most moronic invented garbage that I have ever read. It would suit the narrative of 18th and 19th century Austrian scholars who were always threatened by Serbia’s rebellious nature to desire for self determination and hence, the ever present uprisings against the occupying Ottoman Turks and their poltroons, the newly-converted Muslim population who collaborated in Bosnia and their tribal rabble in Albania on the side of the Ottomans. It is this fear, the possibility of uprisings in Dalmatia, Croatia, Banija by the Slavs( Serbs and Croats) subjugated by the Austo-Hungarian Empire. By denying the Serbs and to some extent the Croats their legitimate autochtonic right to their lands, their aim was to create the notion of nomadic people, a people who have no rights or claims on their lands because they migrated to that region. Yet recent archaeological studies of data and artifacts, supported by genetic profiling of those peoples suggests that they have been indigenous to that region before Christ.
As for the ridiculous claim that “Slavs” mean slaves is absurd. Slav has origins from the word “slovo” which means “word” which implies speak. Therefore, Slavs spoke and could converse with each other. Let’s take that further, the Slavs (Serbs, Sorbs, Sclaveni, Vendi, Dalmati) call the Germans “Njemci”which would mean” ones who don’t speak or mute”, because the word “nijem” means silent, mute hence we get “not speak” (the same language as the Slavs). Vlach comes from the word vlas which means “hair” or wool. As we know the Vlachs were shepherds and mountain people and wore long haired sheepskin coats as they do even today. They were driven into the hills by the invading Romans Dacians and later the Huns and Turks. The Vlachs took on Orthodox Christianity and follow Serbian traditions. There are many Croats and Serbs who originate from the Vlachs. Surnames like Vlah, Vlahović, Vlahovec, Vlastimirović are identifiers of the Vlacj connection.
Furthermore, no matter how much the Croats and the Islamic Serbian or Croatian converts, the ones who have invented an ethnicity from a geographical identifier Bošnjak share their genetic identifiers I2b to such an extent that it is impossible to say that these people come from the same genetic tree from the same father.
I found this on the Internet which can help:
http://historum.com/ancient-history/62034-goths-vandals-really-germans-11.html
This text is, in a word, bad. Imaginative, but bad. It has very little to do with science and truth.
If you dont like the truth that is your problem. This text is based on real genetic research in which 1892 men are tested: https://dnk.poreklo.rs/naslovna/. You can calculate by yourself and you will get same results.
Fascinating! So what happens with the genetic contribution that was suppose to result from the “North India ie Southern regions of the Himalayan Mountains”.
See also: http://www.ebritic.com/?p=607506
B R Babic
Excellent article, based on true facts(results of genetic research by serbian dna project). Thank you for your work in analyzing results of serbian othodox population. This is the best(with most accurate informations) article about serbian genetics i have ever seen.
0good article but remember that I haplogroup is preindoeuropean and I1 that is common in scandinavia do not came with the goths who had genetics similar to modern ukrainians. I2 and I1 are cousins so do R1a and R1b. Every slavic nation have a little (more or less) percentage of R1b where R1a is dominant. I claim that some of people with I1 haplogroup came to the balkans with I2 haplogroup and R1a with R1b. Vinca culture was created mostly by people with I2 and R1a haplogroup.
Bunch of rubbish. The i2 halpogroup originated in the Balkans (just look at the i2 halpogroup map on Eupedia, you dont have to be a genius to see where it originated, where it’s the highest, and where it spread to) and from there it spread. It is not a slavic halpogroup, as it is the highest among Serbs,Croatians,Sardinians and Catalonian people (the last two peoples originated in the Balkans, they also have a similar ethnic dance to Serbian “kolo” and very much have similar looks etc.). The same halpogroup was found in the Vinca culture near Belgarde (which is the oldest found settlement in Europe). I2 has basicaly nothing to do with the general Slavic population (r1a and r1b are Slavic halpogroups). The halpogroup I2 more dominant among Serbs then the Slavic halpogroup (R), which indicates that the Slavic people that came to the Balkans conquered the ancient Balkan tribes (Thracians and illyrians), and the Balkan tribes fell under their influence, began speaking their language, took their culture. But there are some old customs, words, emblems that they carried on, and still exist to this day . Most of the current Serbian population have Thracian and Illyric origin (the cult of Ilija Gromovnik (Illia the Thundercarrier) still remained in the Serbian culture) and many more, also lots of hints and syonims to the Triballi tribe (Thracian tribe, there is also a book by a Serbian author Zivojin Andrejic explaing this connection Serbs have with Triballi tribe even without mentioning the genetic proof, and he is 100% on point, also may Byzantine historians use Triballi as a synonim for Serbian). There is a fair percent of Slavic origin people in Serbia, but generally the majority is not. If you doubt anything, anyone can easily check everything i said.
Haplogroup originates from the place where you can find the most different types of that branch because it shows its mutations. Balkans do not have many mutations of I2a which means that it couldn’t come from there. Even when it comes to the quantity, again it’s not the Balkans. Former Yugoslavia has around 30% of I2a, which would mean around 7million people. Ukraine has 40 million people and frequency of I2a haplogroup is 20-25% which would make it 8-10million(not to even mention those 20-25% of I2a in Southern Russia). It clearly shows that there are more individuals in Ukraine and Southern Russia that are I2a carriers than in the Balkans
You are correct. However, note that the requirement of the study was that the men were declared as Orthodox Serbs. These men likely come from families from lineages that insisted on not mixing with non Orthodox populations.
Geography here is the key. The height population studies were done on people who were “South Dinaric” ie south of the Dinaric Alps – Dalmatians, Herzegovina, Montenegro. That is one ethnic population.
Croatia proper, until the late 19th century, was the region around Zagreb. The Croatian identity is expanded and sort of began including anyone in the region who was Catholic. It seems to me that the population differences are really one of North v South. The ancient people who originate in the area, the South Dinaric bunch who are like Sardinians and are very tall, are mostly in the South. The Slavs are in the North. It is not a surprise then that the capital cities of both Serbia and Croatia are in the north and that the dominant linguistic influence is Slavic.
Essentially, I believe that Belgrade to Zagreb northern parallel is going to be one, more Slavic group, and Istria down to Montenegro another.
Just look at the I2 halpogroup map on Eupedia. Many theories, but the map indicates something else. It’s the most abundant in the Balkans considering the percentage of I2 in the entire population. I still believe it spread from the Balkans, Eupedia also says most likely originated in the Balkans.
Haplogroup I2 is the most common paternal lineage in former Yugoslavia, Romania, Bulgaria and Sardinia, and a major lineage in most Slavic countries. Its maximum frequencies are observed in Bosnia (55%, including 71% in Bosnian Croats), Sardinia (39.5%), Croatia (38%), Serbia (33%), Montenegro (31%), Romania (28%), Moldova (24%), Macedonia (24%), Slovenia (22%), Bulgaria (22%), Belarus (18.5%), Hungary (18%), Slovakia (17.5%), Ukraine (13.5%), and Albania (13.5%). It is found at a frequency of 5 to 10% in Germanic countries. Haplogroup I is the oldest major haplogroup in Europe and in all probability the only one that originated there. Where it exactly it originated is uncertain (considering ice age and the northern part of Europe was frozen/inhabitable during the ice age (lasted untill 11,700 years ago) and considering where it peaks/is most abundant (Balkans, Sardinia)), my theory still remains that it originated somewhere in the Balkans or in Sardinia, and that those people fell under the influence/where conqueared by Slavic R halpogroup people and, as saidm took their language, culture etc.).
Genetists on eupedia dont agree with you. For our branch of I2a(I2a1b-L621) they say next: ,,This branch is found overwhelmingly in Slavic countries. Its maximum frequencies are observed among the Dinaric Slavs (Slovenes, Croats, Bosniaks, Serbs, Montenegrins and Macedonians) as well as in Bulgaria, Romania, Moldavia, western Ukraine and Belarus. It is also common to a lower extent in Albania, Greece, Hungary, Slovakia, Poland, and south-western Russia. I2-L621 (L147.2+) is also known as as I2a-Din (for Dinaric).
The high concentration of I2a1b-L621 in north-east Romania, Moldova and central Ukraine reminds of the maximum spread of the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture (4800-3000 BCE). No Y-DNA sample from this culture has been tested to date, but as it evolved as an offshoot from the Starčevo–Kőrös–Criş culture, it is likely that I2a was one of its main paternal lineages, and a founder effect could have increased considerably its frequency. The Cucuteni-Trypillian culture was the most advanced Neolithic culture in Europe before the Indo-European invasions in the Bronze Age and seems to have had intensive contacts with the Steppe culture before the expansion of Yamna to the Balkans and Central Europe (see histories of R1a and R1b). From 3500 BCE, at the onset of the Yamna period in the Pontic-Caspian Steppe, the Cucuteni-Trypillian people started expanding east into the steppe of what is now western Ukraine, leaving their towns (the largest in the world at the time), and adopting an increasingly nomadic lifestyle like their Yamna neighbours. It can easily be imagined that Cucuteni-Trypillian people became assimilated by the Yamna neighbours and that they spread as a minority lineage alongside haplogroups R1a and R1b as they advanced toward the Baltic with the Corded Ware expansion. Alternatively, I2-L621 lineages could have lived in relative isolation from the mainstream Proto-Indo-European society somewhere around Ukraine, Poland or Belarus, then as the centuries and millennia passed, would have blended with the predominantly R1a populations around them. The resulting amalgam would have become the ancestors of the Proto-Slavs.
Nowadays, I2a1 is five to ten times more common than G2a in Southeast Europe, while during the Neolithic period G2a was approximately four times more common. What can explain this complete reversal? At one point in history, I2a1 lineages seem to have benefited from being on the winning side. Apart from a minor boost from (hypothetically) joining Yamna’s westward expansion to Europe, the principal determining event that allowed I2a1b-L621 to become a major Eastern European lineage was probably the Slavic migrations from the 6th to the 9th century CE. Most modern Eastern Europeans belonging to I2a1b fit into the L147.2 (aka CTS10228, CTS2180 or Y3111) subclade, which is thought to have arisen 5,600 years ago (just before the Yamna period and the Trypillian expansion into the steppe), but has a TMRCA of only 2,300 years according to Yfull. The minority of I2a1b-L621 individuals negative for L147.2 are all found around eastern Poland, Belarus and western Ukraine, suggesting that this is where this lineage survived since the Chalcolithic. The I2a1b-L147.2 subclade seems to have expanded very fast from 1900 years ago, which is concordant with the timing of the Slavic ethnogenesis, considering that it takes a few centuries before one man can have enough male descendants to start having an impact at the scale of a population. This I2-L147.2 ancestor would have such an impact on the burgeoning Early Slavic population, still small 2,300 years ago, but booming.
After the Germanic tribes living in eastern Germany and Poland, like the Goths, the Vandals and the Burgundians, invaded the Roman Empire, the Slavs living further east filled the vacuum. Following the collapse of the Western Roman Empire in 476, the Slavs moved in the Dinaric Alps and the Balkans. By the 9th century, the Slavs occupied all modern Slavic-speaking territories, apart from the eastern Balkans under the control of the Turkic-speaking Bulgars.
Nowadays northern Slavic countries have between 9% (Poland, Czech republic) and 21% (Ukraine) of I2a-L621, while southern Slavs have between 20% (Bulgaria) and 50% (Bosnia). The higher percentage of I2a-Din in the south is probably just due to another founder effect due to the fact that the South Slavs originated in western Ukraine, where the ratio of I2a to R1a was higher. Virtually all Dinaric I2a falls under the L147.2 branch, and the majority to the S17250 ramification, who descend from a common patrilinear ancestor who lived only 1,800 years ago.”
source: https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_I2_Y-DNA.shtml
The above text is Maciamo Hay based and the author is not expert in genetics or any related matter. Please use relevant data when arguing about science. For your curiosity, I haplogroup is NOT Slavic in origin or spread. It is only present (in a minor quantity) among Slavic population (but not exclusively). If you search for “tipical Slavic” haplogroup it should be R1a, though statements of that kind is hazardous, and certainly not scientific.
Also, your informations about percentage per country are not true.
https://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml
Haplogroup I-M438
Possible time of origin 28–33,000 years ago[1]
Possible place of origin Eastern Europe, Balkans or Eastern Mediterranean
Ancestor I-M170
Descendants I-L460, I-L1251
Defining mutations M438/P215/S31
Highest frequencies
I2a1a: Sardinia[2] I2a1b: Bosnia and Herzegovina,[3]
I2a2: Britain, Germany, and Sweden[2]
Haplogroup I-M438, also known as I2 (and until 2007 as I1b), is a human DNA Y-chromosome haplogroup, a subclade of Haplogroup I-M170. Haplogroup I-M438 originated some time around 26,000–31,000 BCE and has two primary subclades: I-L460 and I-L1251.
The haplogroup reaches its maximum frequency in the Dinaric Alps in Eastern Europe (especially in the Balkans),[4] where the men are on record as being the tallest in the world, with a male average height of 185.6 cm (6 ft 1.1 in).[5]
Examples of basal I-M438* have been found in males from Crete and Sicily.
Basal I2* (I-M438*) has been found in ancient remains from Frankthi cave, in the eastern Peloponnese region of Greece. Along with its modern presence in Crete and Sicily, this may suggest that the haplogroup originated in the Eastern Mediterranean
Haplogroup I2a may be the haplogroup of the first anatomically modern humans to inhabit Europe, Cro-Magnon. A 2015 study found haplogroup I2a in 13,000 year old remains from the Azilian culture (at modern Bichon, Switzerland).[6]
Haplogroup I2a was the most frequent Y-DNA among western European mesolithic hunter gatherers (WHG) belonging to Villabruna Cluster. A 2015 study found haplogroup I2a in 13,500 year old remains from the Azilian culture (at modern Bichon, Switzerland). Mass migrations of Middle Eastern farmers during Neolithic and Indo-Europeans during Bronze Age greatly decreased frequncy of I2 in Europe.[7][8][9][6]
Subclades of I2a1 (I-P37.2), namely I-M423 and I-M26 have been found in remains of western European hunter gatherers dating from 10,000 to 8,000 years before present respectively.[10]
Also take into consideration arheologics, the oldest found human settlement, a civilization that even had developed a writing system (which is the oldest writing system ever found), and even had developed copper metallurgy. Translate this and read a bit more about the DNA found in Vinca settlement https://dnk.poreklo.rs/genetska-slika-lepenskog-vira-vince/ It clearly shows a connection with modern day genetic lineage dominant in the balkans.
A little about halpogroup I from which I2 originated from. Haplogroup I (M170) is a Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup. It is a subgroup of haplogroup IJ, which itself is a derivative of the haplogroup IJK.
I-M170 is one of the most numerous haplogroups among European males.[1] Subclades can be found in most present-day European populations, with peaks in some Northern European and South East European countries. Consequently, I-M170 represents up to one-fifth of the male population of Europe, being the continent’s second major Y-DNA haplogroup (behind Haplogroup R).
The haplogroup reaches its maximum frequency in the Balkans (with the highest concentration in present-day Herzegovina). It may be associated with unusually tall males, since those in the Dinaric Alps have been reported to be the tallest in the world, with an average male height of the range 180 cm (5 ft 11 in)-182 cm (6 ft 0 in) in the cantons of Bosnia, 184 cm (6 ft 0 in) in Sarajevo, 182 cm (6 ft 0 in)-186 cm (6 ft 1 in) in the cantons of Herzegovina.[2]
The culture of Lepenski Vir is one of the most important and most complex prehistoric cultures in Europe. Her home area covered the area of the Djerdap Gorge, and radiocarbon measurements found that this area was inhabited almost 4000 years without interruption, from about 9500 to 5500 BC. The Lepenski Vir site was discovered in 1960, and the first research was conducted in the period 1965-1970.
The Lepenski Vir site was discovered in 1960, and the first research was conducted in the period 1965-1970. under the guidance of Professor Dragoslav Srejović, an archeologist, academician and professor at the University of Belgrade. Recent research in the period 2006-2009. was led by Professor Dusan Boric. The most important settlements of this culture are, from the Serbian side of the Danube, Lepenski Vir, Padina, Stubica, Vlasac and Hajdučka Vodenica, and from the Romanian side Alibeg, Ikoan, Razvrata, Skela Kladovei and Ostrovul Korbului. Based on the research of the Lepenski Vir locality, Dušan Borić proposed dividing the culture into four phases:
1. 9500-7300 b.c. Early and Middle Mesolithic – Proto-Lepenski Vir I-II
2. 7300-6200 b.c.. late mesolith (at this stage no traces of occupation at the Lepenski Vir site were recorded, but the phase is well represented by findings from Vlasac, Padina and Hajdučka Vodenica)
3. 6150-5950 b.c. Transformation / Early Neolithic – Lepenski Vir I-II
4. 5950-5500 b.c.. Middle Neolithic – Lepenski Vir III
Now we will deal in more detail with haplogroups, as they are the most useful for interpreting population movements in the distant past. Out of 17 male samples from this study, 10 belonged to haplogroup I, whose bearers were one of the earliest modern humans who settled in Europe, and is the most dominant halpogroup in modern day Serbia, and i’m not talking about dominant in numbers (take in mind that Serbia has less than 7 000 000 people), i’m talking about the abundance of I halpogroup inside an entire population in %, the majority of people in Serbia are I2 carriers while the majority of people in Ukraine are R1 carriers 42,8%, the presece of I2 is 18,7% . I did not heard of older found carriers of I halpogroup in Ukraine than in the Balkans .
The high concentration of I2a1b-L621 in north-east Romania, Moldova and central Ukraine reminds of the maximum spread of the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture (4800-3000 BCE). No Y-DNA sample from this culture has been tested to date, but it evolved as an offshoot from the Starčevo–Kőrös–Criş culture, not the other way around, this culture is older .
The above texts about “certain” Slavic origin of Serbs are pure invention and various percentage of “tested haplogroups” are decidedly without any scientific proof. For years, the group of self-declared “genetic experts” under “Poreklo project” is selling cut and paste “proofs” from various dubious forums in Internet aiming to research Serbian genetic and Serbian origins. As a result (it can not be excluded that they are paid for that) they arrived only to a high level of nationalism and local racism in odour of German Lebensborn ideas from II WW, stating some theory of clear Serbian origins tied to pan-Slavic common ancestry. Well, the matter of ethnic (and biological) origin of some human group is much more complex than haplogroup percent (modified) list and far beyond the possibilities of “scientists” from http://www.poreklo.rs .Their main sources are borrowed parts from various sites in Internet that deals with popular (and not scientific) genetics and the use of them in arbitrary way, and their main experts, are dubious names (Klyosov, Nordtvedt and others) already banned from the official or true science. Serious attempt to trace contours of the scientifically acceptable ethnogenesis must consider at least five different scientific disciplines, that in recent times, have addressed the problem of the origin of specific ethnic group and language. Only if they have reached conclusions that seem to show a remarkable convergence, they could be considered as a reliably method of analysing. These sciences are, archaeology, genetics, linguistics, anthropology, and history with special ethnology cognitive analysis. To these five disciplines, can be added research on history of ideas, and more specifically history of archaeology and of linguistics, for the critical light that their conclusions throw on the ideological genesis of the traditional theory. History, genetics, language and its development and archaeological proofs should be the right way to reconstruct ethnic origins. As no one of the “experts” in http://www.poreklo.rs is serious researcher in any of listed categories, it is clear that all their ambitious project is pure storytelling with no scientific fundaments. It is not my intention to proof anything, nor I pretend to be expert in cited scientific categories, but simply to warn readers against those “scientific” enterprises that already brought immensely damage to any serious inquiry, about these important questions. I would like to assure all of you that Serbia has enough true scientists in all of listed fields, absolutely capable to search for any scientific truth.
You’re just a butthurt autochtonist who did a DNA test and found out he isn’t a pure Illyrian/Thracian/Dacian as he believed beforehand.
Just pointing out to the author that the photo you use of the “darker” Serb population is not a Serb population at all. The men in the photo are Turkish politicians visiting the Muslim population of Sandzak, which is why you see the red Turkish flag.
The photo also has the emblem of “SDA” – Stranka Demokratske Akcije – The Bosnian Muslim nationalist party which pushed for Bosnian independence and is trying to foster closer ties with Turkey. The children are presumably Muslim children and not Serbs and the adults are Turkish diplomats posing for photo.
So basically Vasojevci, Piperi, Bijelopavlici etc, are not Serb in origin. Or for that matter anyone with EV13 is not, but instead pre slavic tribe from the Balkans.
I disagree, I2a P37 did not come from central europe. How could 1 subclade multiple into nearly 11.000.000 people in just 1500yrs? I recall reading that only 100.000 slavs came to the Balkans at a time where there were already 4.000.000 (including greece and romania). Plus it doesnt make since, because if Ev13 was there before it would have a higher percentage currently and it does not.
10000 years ago, during the ice age, the ice shields covered major parts of Germany, Poland, Ukraine completely, and all the northern Europe. Balkan and Sardinia had a much more habitable climate. Another thing going against the theory that I2a could have originated in Ukraine. Also, t the I2a carriers generally dark haired, dinaric type of people, which also doesn’t suggest that they originated in the northern climate. Which is purely adaptation to a certain climate conditions during a long period of time.
If you look att serbian dna Project, E is more 20% then this 13%.. and they Only count the ones that count them selfs as serbs who are ortodox …but more and more are taking the test..so i would guds the numbers go up and down för every haplogroup
Be careful of any information you pull from the Serbian DNA Project – they are really unethical and obsessed with the Greater Serbia propaganda that everyone is a “Serb but different religion”. They have a habit of trolling non-Serb DNA groups and data mining people. People have to send emails to them to ask them to remove their fathers, brothers etc because they take peoples names, paternal genealogy lines etc against their will. I know – because they did that with the men in my family. They are also very disrespectful by calling Croats “Katolic” and Bosnian’s “Muslim” regardless of their religion.
I think people like my father with E haplogroup are def pre-Slav. Not one man in our family has R haplogroup and our family records are centuries old in our regions.
Seethe
so are serbs slavs or not ?
All Serbs have Slavic ancestry. Many of Serbs were assimilated into Vlachs, Illyrians, Thracians, Aromanians, Greeks, Romans, Celts, Goths, Tatars, Magyars, Gypsies (Roma), Finns, Mongolians
Muslims in Novi Pazar and other parts of Sandžak are of Albanian origin.
The levels of 24% R1a and 14% E1b are totally wrong. In 2014 when the SERBIAN DNA PROJECT had 200 participants the high R1a was true, but now when there is more than 1000 members E1b displaced it. These are the frequencies in Serbia according to the SERBIAN DNA PROJECT: https://dnk.poreklo.rs/DNK-projekat
I2: 412 (37.19%)
E1b: 181 (16.34%)
R1a: 168 (15.16%)
Total: 1108 members
The remaining studies in Serbia were smaller ones in Belgrade, Alexandrovac and Novi Sad, and they also showed that E1b is higher than R1a in the two biggest Serbian cities. Everything showed that in Serbians E1b is generally more than R1a. In Serbians, technicaly there is less R1a than in Bulgarians. But I would say the levels of R1a of 15-16% in Serbia and Bulgaria are may show about the same Slavic contribution. The highest score Serbians share with Northern Macedonians. Before Croats, higher similarity to Serbs score Bulgarians, Romanians and Montenegrins. Serbians share more of Y-DNA percentage with their other Slavic neighbours than with Croats despite what the article says.
You are spreading fake informations here. Every big sample is showing higher % of R1a than E in Serbs in Serbia. Look at results on eupedia (more than 1000 of tested Serbians):
https://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml
And Serbians are closest to Croats by y-dna, much closer than to Macedonians or Bulgarians.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f3/02/3a/f3023a38f100a8fceb7dfb97acb8b570.png
https://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f3/02/3a/f3023a38f100a8fceb7dfb97acb8b570.png
Sample on Eupedia is huge (more than 1000 of tested Serbians) and it shows higher % of R1a than E. It also shows that Serbia is closest to Croatia, much closer than to Macedonia or Bulgaria. So, you are obviously spreading fake informations.
Serbs are mainly Thraco-Illyrians in origins.This is even proven by medieval historians who referred to Serbs as Triballi or Tribaloi.Tribali were a Thracian tribe.A historian by the name of Laonikos Chalkokondyles wrote in 14th century that Serbs are Illyrians.Illyrians/Thracians these are all the same people just use different name.So in short Serbs never migrated but have always lived in balkans from time of Aleksander the Great etc etc and even before.
That’s just a fantasmagoric fairytale with zero proof. There are no records of Serbs before the Slavic migrations, and we don’t have any form of continuity with the pre-Slavic Balkan tribes. Some members of those tribes were assmilated into the Slavic Serbs which is reflected by genetics, but our language and tradition are Slavic, and from that standpoint your theories are moot. Byzantine historians and chroniclers plastered many ancient names onto the Slavic populace, that doesn’t mean there is any sort of continuity between these two. But for someone who’s grasping at straws, I don’t expect you to understand that.
Ce que tu dis est faux les serbes tout comme les croates sont slaves d’origine sarmates ancien peuple iranien scythique (serboi pour les serbes, horvats pour les croates ) qui ont migré en Europe Centrale ils se sont fait slavisé par les tribus slaves pour former la serbie blanche et la Croatie blanche actuelle Lusace est le sud de la Pologne pour finalement envahir est s’installer dans l’empire byzantin en formant de petites communautés sklavinies.
My answer to Amaranth:
Eupedia have pretty big sample (more than 1000 of tested Serbians) and it shows that % of R1a is higher than % of E in Serbia. It also shows that y-dna in Serbia is closest to y-dna in Croatia, much closer to Croatia than to Macedonia or Bulgaria.
https://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f3/02/3a/f3023a38f100a8fceb7dfb97acb8b570.png
Who car3
Who cares
There are very little science in this writing. Literally, many families from BiH have their extended families in Sandzak. Most of them are blood related and carry the same last name. Even some rare diseases you can find in both groups, that you cannot find in many other places. The article has no methods and numbers used for this research. Which research lab was working on this, etc.